vs 35
Uh oh. I guess you weren't really expecting God to crack open the can of whupass. After all, he has relented so many times when Israel has boned up (have I mentioned how early in their history this is?), perhaps they think he's a bit soft. But no, now he indiscriminately sets a death penalty on a whole generation of people - the very same generation that witnessed his miraculous dragging of them out of Egypt.
vs 36
I say indiscriminate. Of course, Caleb is left out of the mess. He goes on to become a right old mucker too. So God getting angry and swearing solemnly is great if you are an old codger.
vs 37
Well, is that entirely true, Moses? I mean, was it because of Israel that you disobeyed God? Perhaps. Still, that seems a bit of a stretch. This is one of those verses where my "inspired" sense tells me, "Ben, you have to work out a way that means this verse is gelled with the one that says it's Moses' fault he doesn't get into the Promised Land." But I'm not going to come up with a scheme. Sure, it could be that a portion of blame goes to Israel. I just think this is Moses' swansong, his speech on the edge of a land he'll never get to enter, and so he's probably just a little bit bitter.
vs 38
Again, with every stroke of bad news there's good news - for Joshua, anyway. And it seems only fair - Joshua was the other spy who came with good news and trusted God.
vs 39
Now of course every parent wants what is best for their kids. God just knows the taste of irony. It's a taste he likes. Never let anyone say that God doesn't have a sense of humour, even gallows style ironic humour.
I think people often complain about something affecting their children when they themselves don't like it. Who knows - the kids of the wandering might not have even complained about regular manna and quail. After all, they didn't know anything else. But oh no, the parents pull the classic Christian, "But what about the children? WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!" complete with a number of exclamation marks that is the mark of the truly insane. The kids, then, are fine. It's the parents that get the rough end of the stick.
vs 40
God was basically saying, "Garn, git. Go on ahead without me, if you think you're so smart." What were they going to do, turn around and go back to Egypt?
vs 41
This is the sort of 'repentance without waiting to be forgiven' type attitude that a lot of spiritual people have. They take God as a big fluffy santa that will just forgive you because God is love, like some sort of immense cloud-huggin' hippy. They think, "Even if I did do stuff wrong, God will forgive it because he's loving, so I can just say I'm sorry and get on with it."
vs 42
But you can't. God doesn't like cocksuredness. It just means you're still not listening to him. That's all God wants - is for people to listen to him when he talks and obey him. I mean, is it really that much of an ask? He doesn't want us to go win battles for him. He's perfectly capable of winning his battles. He just wants us to be sincere when we say things like "Sorry for condemning an entire generation to die in the desert."
vs 43
And in a record return to form, Israel ignores God. Again.
vs 44
And once again it doesn't go well for them. They get slapped, big time. People die, and it's just g general chaos and bedlam. Unfortunately, the only message Moses has is, "I told you so." Which might have at least made him feel better.
vs 45
But the experience at least had an impact on Israel. They are actually weeping now, and weeping before God - probably at least partly because their asses hurt so much after being handed to them by Ammorites, but also hopefully at least partly because they recognised what asshats they'd been to God, and they were really, genuinely sorry this time.
Sucks, but sometimes that's the only way we know we've done bad - when we get a caning.
But now it's worse. God won't even listen. He's finished with Israel.
vs 46
So now they're stuck. God isn't going to give them a victory. He's not even going to listen to their weeping. He's letting them stew. Get the full flavour of the idiot meal they've made for themselves. Will he ever come back to them? Find out tomorrow!
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16 comments:
their asses hurt so much after being handed to them by Ammorites, but also hopefully at least partly because they recognised what asshats they'd been
Those poor asses... donkeys always get the short end of the stick. Won't somebody think of the asses?!? I do like asshats, though; they're so cute, especially the way you have to cut holes in them so the donkey's ears can stick out through the brim all comical-like.
Just curious, what would you say the ratio of compassion/relish is that you regard Israel's comeuppance?
... with?
Geez, hello to terrible grammar. Anduc!
Wait, is that my with or your lack of with? Surely you wouldn't consider ending a sentence with a preposition?
What's compassion but a bunch of letters surrounding ass?
My view is that if you can't make fun of Israel when reading the Bible, then who can you make fun of?
My "with". Up with which I will not put!
I laugh at everyone. But with ass with a bunch letters surrounding it... Seriously I think it's just too dangerous to "laugh at" anyone who screws up with God, and not weep with them too. If I had to choose, I'd rather weep than laugh, and I'd rather do both than only one, or neither.
Or make fun of. Gah, brain.
Fruncen.
Some of us would rather not weep when confronted with an example of humanity's general inability to obey God which inevitably, and rather confrontingly, is mirrored in all of our lives. What can I say? Some of us would rather not be depressed.
Besides, "I will mourn with those who mourn". You can read that two ways - one, the generation that died in the desert is, well, dead. While I might occasionally dig up James Ensor to shake his hand, I don't think I'll go digging up the dry bones of that generation to weep with them.
Alternatively, you can read it as the fact that Israel has, as a nation, quite consistently not wept for its disintegrated relationship with God after crucifying and ignoring its own Messiah.
Perhaps when they weep, I'll weep with them. In the meantime, I'll save my ruminations about the illustrative nature of Israel as a picture of human-God relational breakdown for when I'm going through Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers. Deuteronomy 1-4 is really just a summary, and so all they get is a passing laugh.
The real question then becomes, when you are suffering the wrath of God for being disobedient, will I weep with you, or will I laugh at you, or both? I'll let you guess that one. :D
Why would it be "too dangerous to "laugh at" anyone who screws up with God" Is it because laughing implies judgment and you shouldn't judge or what?
Of course it might be too late to just jump in on this conversation.
In which case I bid you haphl and leave it there.
Well, as has been pointed out many times before, there's a difference between "laugh with" and "laugh at", and it's rather significant. I'd hope you'd both genuinely laugh and cry with me. Do I think you'd laugh at me? Well, you're laughing at Israel... In all honesty I couldn't say.
And to play the sanctimonious card, Jesus wept over Jerusalem, which is kind of my point, I guess. Which, I acknowledge, is not "weeping with", but "over", and I should have worded it that way in the first place, because it's more what I meant. Even so, Israel did plenty of weeping in the course of their career, so you can weep with them too.
Dave, my original point was that it's dangerous to laugh at without weeping too. It is the judgement thing - not that we shouldn't judge but what measure do we judge by? If you honestly think that, put in Israel's precise situation, you'd do better than them, laugh away I guess. I don't find the situation all that genuinely funny, nor do I consider avoiding being depressed by ridiculing a weak target a very appealing solution, but whatever, YMMV.
On the other hand, I have no reason to think I would fare any better than your average Israelite in that situation. Obviously I hope I would, but I'm really just left grateful that I'm not in their place. I've got God living inside me and the power of Christ's resurrection working in me, and I still screw up incredibly often. And it's my luxury that I don't have an inspired prophet recording all my idiocy and willfulness for future generations to smirk over.
/high horse
Phew! That was some high quality classic Ben I just deleted. Twice. Three times.
Instead, let me phrase my answer in the only language that can respond to such an attitude.
I'm sorry for my opinion and any offence that it caused you or anyone else. I will endeavour to have as much compassion for ancient Israel as you.
I hope that we can construct bridges of peace between us, so that the love of God might shine through the dark clouds of despondency that are rife in my life.
There really is nothing funny about Israel's plight. How heartless I have been. Thank you for pointing out that I should be more like Jesus and weep over such things.
I will endeavour to model my life attitudes on yours. I hope you will continue to have such a positive imput into my life through your wisdom and compassion.
... um? I don't know what tone to read that in.
I'm sorry I preaced at you, I saw it happening but couldn't figure out how to say what I was trying to say differently. I should have. I'm not going to start backpedalling and saying "Oh but I didn't mean to", because clearly I did want to call you on it - I'm cowardly, though, and wanted to avoid the inevitable clash. I didn't want it to be a big deal. To confront without actually confronting! Maybe I should have just sat and sat and sat on it until I figured a more loving way to speak truth... or at least the tiny piece of truth I think I see.
I think - hope - you're being sincere. Not from some bizarre notion of "winning", but because... I simply don't want us to be snarking at each other like that, regardless of who started it (and this one is definitely my fault). I'm sorry for "such an attitude", that I was disdainful; I had no right to be. Please don't suspect me of bad faith, in not being entirely sure that your last comment was sincere...
We just seem to be able to find and tear at each other's vulnerable spots too easily. Or our negative words have extra impact. So do we behave with extra caution and love? No, we usually ignore it. Or assume the other can take it. At least, that's how it seems to me. Usually - thank you for deleting your first responses; if they were high quality classic Ben, they would have been hard to discard. And I'm sure they would have been devastating - no matter how much I deserved it. So thank you for showing me grace.
I'll give you the benefit of my comments being about 50% true. My goal in doing this blog is not to offend your sensibilities (or anyone's), but it is to express my opinions. And as such I will defend them.
I was honestly shocked that you were even prepared to admit that you were being sanctimonious and high-horsed, but kept going anyway!
For your benefit, I've gone back and highlighted the parts of my reply that were kosher. At least you can be secure in the knowledge that you know me well enough not to backpedal as much as I might seem to.
Hmm, okay, you can't edit comments. Anyway, take my word for it that anything where I agree with you is probably not true.
The important bits are:
I'm sorry for my opinion and any offence that it caused you or anyone else.
I hope that we can construct bridges of peace between us.
Thank you for pointing out that I should be more like Jesus and weep over such things.
I hope you will continue to have such a positive input into my life through your ... compassion.
Ah, 50%. Serves me right for not thinking of that - even though that was what was giving me all the trouble. It was the switching back and forth that threw me, and I simply couldn't make either end of the sincere/sarcastic spectrum stick.
Sigh.
Where did Dave go? Probably wisely backed out. "Where angels fear to tread", and so on...
He wised up. Dangerous place to stand, between two machine guns.
Yes. I just wish we could find a better way to do this whole "submitting to one another out of reverence to Christ" thing, because I'm pretty sure machine guns are not what he had in mind. Or anything else less anachronistic, either.
Oh I was watching what you guys were up to... though as you said I was biding my time to respond. continuing the machine gun fire analogy, I had mental images of 2 enemies on opposite sides just waiting for something to twitch in no mans land and me being the guy who wandered in to pick up the tennis ball that had been hit stray...
or something. That image didn't come out quite like I wanted. I had started writing one straight after your reply to my first one Nina, but got distracted by Ben coming around so I didn't finish it up.
I did comment to Ben though I worry about you guys some times.
In regards to your reply though, fair enough, I did only really pic up on the judgment part, you did say you would rather have both if any (laughter and weeping)
Of course there was no intention to put me on some holy high ground that would make me better than Israel. I guess in some regards, I do chuckle at the image of people rebelling against God, because it is funny image of people gathering up against the lord.
Psalm 2:4 "The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them."
Of course God has the right to laugh at it. His judgment though is pretty fearful and awe inspiring, not something to be laughed at. It serves as a warning to us (though how much attention we pay to it sometimes is as good as Israel forgetting how much God laid the smack down previously)
Anyways, as always you guys to tend to delve into things in a far more passionate manner than I do and it is good to see. Hopefully we can all build each other up in knowledge and compassion through the study of the bible.
until next uber thread... folosts!
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